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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>design meeting 2019-09-27 · t-compiler · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/index.html">t-compiler</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html">design meeting 2019-09-27</a></h3>

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<a name="176743423"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743423" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743423">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Is there a design meeting today?</p>



<a name="176743499"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743499" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743499">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>There's a design meeting happening over in <code>wg-mir-opt</code>: <a href="#narrow/stream/189540-t-compiler.2Fwg-mir-opt/topic/Place's.20projection.20interning.20design.20meeting.20.3F" title="#narrow/stream/189540-t-compiler.2Fwg-mir-opt/topic/Place's.20projection.20interning.20design.20meeting.20.3F">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/189540-t-compiler.2Fwg-mir-opt/topic/Place's.20projection.20interning.20design.20meeting.20.3F</a></p>



<a name="176743549"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743549" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743549">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>If that's what you're thinking of</p>



<a name="176743723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743723">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>There <em>is</em> a steering meeting today, which we sometimes call design meetings</p>



<a name="176743754"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743754" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743754">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>The meeting today is specifically a <em>planning meeting</em> for the proposals that we have on the table</p>



<a name="176743770"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743770" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743770">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>in fact this seems as good a time as any to let everyone know ...</p>



<a name="176743779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743779">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah ok. Thanks!</p>



<a name="176743796"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743796" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743796">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Just a heads up to <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> : the planning meeting will be starting in 53 minutes in this zulip topic</p>



<a name="176743956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176743956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176743956">(Sep 27 2019 at 13:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>In the meantime, you all can look over the meeting proposals over <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Ameeting-proposal" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Ameeting-proposal">here</a></p>



<a name="176748169"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748169" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748169">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> -- steering meeting is now! This is a planning meeting, meaning that we'll be deciding what to talk about over the next few weeks.</p>



<a name="176748180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748180">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm going to start by giving 5 minutes for </p>
<h1>Announcements</h1>



<a name="176748189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748189">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also last minute design proposals :)</p>



<a name="176748206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748206">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me goes to open something he didn't get around to doing yesterday</p>



<a name="176748360"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748360" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748360">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was going to ask what it meant that <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159">compiler-team#159</a> was <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159#issuecomment-530802377" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159#issuecomment-530802377">"descheduled and replaced"</a> with <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/166" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/166">compiler-team#166</a>; but I think I've inferred that in this context, "descheduled and replaced with" means <em>pre-empted by</em>, right?</p>



<a name="176748485"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748485" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748485">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>(my original interpretation was that the phrase meant 159 was <em>subsumed by</em> 166; but I no longer believe that to be a correct intepretation.)</p>



<a name="176748624"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748624" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Wesley Wiser <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748624">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>IIRC the meeting slot was replaced with a different topic, but the topic itself is still valid.</p>



<a name="176748678"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748678" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748678">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I was going to ask what it meant that <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159">compiler-team#159</a> was <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159#issuecomment-530802377" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159#issuecomment-530802377">"descheduled and replaced"</a> with <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/166" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/166">compiler-team#166</a>; but I think I've inferred that in this context, "descheduled and replaced with" means <em>pre-empted by</em>, right?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>confirm</p>



<a name="176748706"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748706" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748706">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, not a lot of announcements, that's cool, we had a very active announcement time yesterday :)</p>



<a name="176748721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748721">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>We have a <strong>lot</strong> of <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/labels/meeting-proposal" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/labels/meeting-proposal">meeting proposals</a> this week</p>



<a name="176748733"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748733" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748733">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Its been a while since I was at one of these things</p>



<a name="176748740"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748740" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748740">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, it's been 4 weeks</p>



<a name="176748751"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748751" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748751">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>You just weren't at the last one :P</p>



<a name="176748774"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748774" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748774">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyway, reminder: every 4 weeks, we have one of these planning meetings to discuss what to do over the next 3 meetings</p>



<a name="176748822"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748822" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748822">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>As a general guideline, we are supposed to discuss at least one "non-technical" topic, meaning not some kind of technical deep dive but rather a discussion about how we run the group, priorities, etc (of course it often will still hit on some technical topics)</p>



<a name="176748941"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748941" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748941">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>there are <del>7</del> 8 <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Ameeting-proposal+sort%3Acreated-asc" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Ameeting-proposal+sort%3Acreated-asc">proposals</a>. Looking at them now, I am wondering if there is an opportunity to combine topics.</p>



<a name="176748942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748942">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>With that in mind, let me start by dumping out a list of the topics, and people can generally vote on what they think has highest priority. We'll do this with approval voting, meaning put a <span aria-label="+1" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="+1">:+1:</span> emoji on as many as you like.</p>



<a name="176748989"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176748989" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176748989">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>roadmap 2020 planning 1 <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/188" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/188">compiler-team#188</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749003"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749003" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749003">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>working group review <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/187" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/187">compiler-team#187</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749012"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749012" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749012">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>who debugs the debuginfo <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/186" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/186">compiler-team#186</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749024">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Constitutional Convention <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184">compiler-team#184</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749034"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749034" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749034">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>merge llvm.sideeffect change <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177">compiler-team#177</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749049"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749049" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749049">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Migrate rustc_interface queries (Zoxc's outstanding PRs) <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175">compiler-team#175</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749061"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749061" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749061">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>compile time analysis and assistance <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/161" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/161">compiler-team#161</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749120">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>ICE-breaker groups <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/159">compiler-team#159</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749136"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749136" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749136">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Maintenance and triage <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/90" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/90">compiler-team#90</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749163">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:10)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>there are <del>7</del> 8 <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Ameeting-proposal+sort%3Acreated-asc" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Ameeting-proposal+sort%3Acreated-asc">proposals</a>. Looking at them now, I am wondering if there is an opportunity to combine topics.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>indeed. I think one of the other things we can do in this meeting is to give feedback on a proposal, or maybe close, or combine, or just generally tweak.</p>



<a name="176749303"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749303" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749303">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>(In particular, I think we may should consider what amount of prep we want before a given meeting, and assign someone to do it, since most of these proposals are really just paragraphs -- and that's ok, I think that should be our new process.)</p>



<a name="176749390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749390">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Is anyone still considering what to vote for who wants to vote? I'm going to wait another minute or so)</p>



<a name="176749417"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749417" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749417">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:12)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> did you have specific "merges" in mind?</p>



<a name="176749431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749431">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was considering merging ICE-breaker into Maintenance and Triage</p>



<a name="176749454"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749454" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749454">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was considering just closing that</p>



<a name="176749471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749471">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>the working-group review may or may not fit in with them as well. It probably deserves its own slot given how many working groups there are</p>



<a name="176749479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749479">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe I'll just do that -- we're moving forward now, we can schedule a meeting if it seems like there are open questions worth discussing.</p>



<a name="176749497"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749497" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749497">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Just closing ICE-breakers, that is?</p>



<a name="176749556"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749556" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749556">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="176749570"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749570" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749570">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm going to do it! :decisive:</p>



<a name="176749583"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749583" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749583">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, enough voting.</p>



<a name="176749634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749634">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Top candidates, non-technical:</p>
<ul>
<li>roadmap 2020 planning 1 <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/188" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/188">compiler-team#188</a></li>
<li><del>constitutional convention <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184"><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184">compiler-team#184</a></a></del></li>
</ul>
<p>Top candidates, technical:</p>
<ul>
<li>merge side-effect change <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177">compiler-team#177</a></li>
<li>migrate rustc_interface queries <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175">compiler-team#175</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176749760"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749760" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749760">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the roadmap is higher priority than constitutional convention, and I think the voting tallies support that thinking.</p>



<a name="176749779"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749779" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749779">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>we've been muddling along so far, we can keep going for a while yet</p>



<a name="176749815"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749815" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749815">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I agree -- though I think it's probably a good idea to start trying to actually draft a more specific proposal on the side. I'd rather not discuss that further in this meeting though.</p>



<a name="176749833"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749833" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749833">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I have thoughts I'll post in a separate topic)</p>



<a name="176749847"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749847" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749847">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes. Maybe in fact a road map item for 2020 would be to have such a convention</p>



<a name="176749849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749849">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>One question I have about the merge side-effect change:</p>



<a name="176749861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749861">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I think we need to reach a decision here</p>



<a name="176749903"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749903" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749903">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>The current status is "we have some data that shows some slowdown, and we have (I think) no better ideas on how to do this"</p>



<a name="176749957"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749957" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749957">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if this is really a good use of meeting time. Maybe we want to delegate some folks to decide? This is kind of entangled in the "constitution" topic :P but yeah</p>



<a name="176749995"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749995" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749995">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, I would expect people to show up more or less uninformed</p>



<a name="176749996"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176749996" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176749996">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, is our concern that we might have underestimated the true cost for some important customers?</p>



<a name="176750000"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750000" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750000">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the point of the meeting is maybe more "how do we decide". (Caveat: I'm kind of inclined to think we should just bite the bullet and do this)</p>



<a name="176750016"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750016" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750016">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>or are we assuming that our estimate is accurate, and the question is just whether the cost is acceptable?</p>



<a name="176750017"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750017" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750017">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>well, is our concern that we might have underestimated the true cost for some important customers?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think that's probably a factor -- I think we don't have very well articulated concerns</p>



<a name="176750088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750088">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I could see e.g. picking two or three "real world" applications, let's say firefox stylo, maybe something from linkerd/tokio, and measuring the impact</p>



<a name="176750097"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750097" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750097">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., people who have pre-defined benchmarks of their own</p>



<a name="176750099"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750099" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750099">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I voted for that change to figure out how we want to proceed, there is more than just "lets merge" or "lets not merge and wait" to it</p>



<a name="176750108"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750108" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750108">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>(cc <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="224941">@Carl Lerche</span> -- could you maybe help us in measuring perf impact on linkerd etc?)</p>



<a name="176750114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750114">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I voted for that change to figure out how we want to proceed, there is more than just "lets merge" or "lets not merge and wait" to it</p>
</blockquote>
<p>ok!</p>



<a name="176750143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750143">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="123586">@nagisa</span> do you think it's worth having a meeting, or do you feel like there is more steps to do first?</p>



<a name="176750158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750158">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="123586">@nagisa</span> so you think its worth a Friday steering meeting of the team?</p>



<a name="176750166"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750166" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750166">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>but the "more" is also "what the actual heck is happening with LLVM’s direction wrt forward-progress" and I myself have no idea.</p>



<a name="176750176"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750176" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750176">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="123586">@nagisa</span> or do you think we could grab some volunteers from those present now to investigate/deep-dive?</p>



<a name="176750180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750180">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>so I don’t think meeting is a correct medium to discuss this per se.</p>



<a name="176750186"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750186" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750186">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>is it possible to merge the change behind a -Z flag? that would make it easier to test for Firefox</p>



<a name="176750194"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750194" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750194">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, nice</p>



<a name="176750201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750201">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, that is possible</p>



<a name="176750259"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750259" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750259">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe we should just agree to do that and delegate to someone to get "real world" measurements on firefox and 2 or 3 other projects?</p>



<a name="176750289"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750289" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750289">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>We can leave the meeting proposal open to revisit the topic once we have that data?</p>



<a name="176750290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750290">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can do Firefox if this is available in a regular nightly</p>



<a name="176750295"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750295" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nagisa <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750295">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don’t mind merging it behind a flag. If anything this will prevent this code from bitrotting endlessly</p>



<a name="176750301"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750301" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750301">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd volunteer to do something else</p>



<a name="176750315"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750315" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750315">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>or at least pester someone to do so :P</p>



<a name="176750345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750345">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, let's do that</p>



<a name="176750349"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750349" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750349">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I don’t mind merging it behind a flag. If anything this will prevent this code from bitrotting endlessly</p>
</blockquote>
<p>To be clear:  merging it on-by-default with flag to disable? Or other way around?</p>



<a name="176750357"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750357" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750357">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>(must have meant other way around)</p>



<a name="176750362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750362">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the idea was a flag to <strong>enable</strong></p>



<a name="176750369"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750369" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750369">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>the other way round</p>



<a name="176750373"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750373" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750373">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="176750375"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750375" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750375">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>default users have no change</p>



<a name="176750383"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750383" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750383">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Glad we're all in sync</p>



<a name="176750497"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750497" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750497">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>so okay, that's one tech topic taken care of</p>



<a name="176750522"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750522" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750522">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177#issuecomment-535961705" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177#issuecomment-535961705">posted comment</a></p>



<a name="176750534"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750534" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750534">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll post on the PR too</p>



<a name="176750644"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750644" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750644">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, done</p>



<a name="176750666"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750666" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750666">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>current status:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Top candidates, non-technical:</p>
<ul>
<li>roadmap 2020 planning 1 <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/188" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/188">compiler-team#188</a></li>
<li><del>constitutional convention <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184"><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/184">compiler-team#184</a></a></del></li>
</ul>
<p>Top candidates, technical:</p>
<ul>
<li><del>merge side-effect change <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177"><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/177">compiler-team#177</a></a></del></li>
<li>migrate rustc_interface queries <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175">compiler-team#175</a></li>
</ul>
</blockquote>



<a name="176750671"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750671" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750671">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let's talk about <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/175">compiler-team#175</a>?</p>



<a name="176750700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750700">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we need to start making some decisions here</p>



<a name="176750701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750701">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>First off: is  <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116466">@Zoxc</span>   present here?</p>



<a name="176750723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750723">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>Unknown, but we would definitely want them to attend any meeting we schedule!</p>



<a name="176750865"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750865" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750865">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>can we schedule it with a fallback topic if we learn <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116466">@Zoxc</span>  cannot attend the slot we choose?</p>



<a name="176750895"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750895" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750895">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also think that <a href="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/migrating-rustc-interface-queries-to-proper-librustc-queries/10433" target="_blank" title="https://internals.rust-lang.org/t/migrating-rustc-interface-queries-to-proper-librustc-queries/10433">@**Zoxc**'s writeup on internals</a> is pretty decent in terms of laying out the various PRs they've opened. I guess one question for me is whether these PRs represent an end-state or just an intermediate step to something else (and what that is)</p>



<a name="176750915"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750915" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750915">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>can we schedule it with a fallback topic if we learn <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116466">Zoxc</span>  cannot attend the slot we choose?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah I think we can adjust schedules a bit as needed</p>



<a name="176750931"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750931">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>(where we would try to establish well ahead of time, say Tuesday, whether <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116466">@Zoxc</span> is available)</p>



<a name="176750944"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750944" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750944">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay</p>



<a name="176750977"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750977" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750977">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it'd be useful to sharpen a <em>bit</em> what we aim to get out of the meeting exactly</p>



<a name="176750988"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176750988" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176750988">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Though I could also imagine doing that async</p>



<a name="176751066"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751066">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>no, I can't, I take that back</p>



<a name="176751087"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751087" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751087">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>(what I can imagine is that we discuss here in general terms and that we async do work to try and prep for that goal)</p>



<a name="176751333"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751333" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751333">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK. So, one thing I am imagining:</p>



<a name="176751369"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751369" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751369">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:33)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>we could pick one of this PRs and try to walk through it in more detail. It seems like many of them have far-reaching implications. Ideally, this would be a PR that we could move to land on its own.</li>
</ul>



<a name="176751454"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751454" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751454">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:34)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>we could also focus instead on the end-state -- I just worry that there are too many unknowns there, given the work on rust-analyzer etc, so I guess we have to decide what end-state really means</li>
</ul>



<a name="176751502"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751502" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751502">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I sort of incline to the first, I think it'd be interesting and helpful to the ultimate reviewers. Depending how it goes, we could rinse-and-repeat for other PRs.</p>



<a name="176751519"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751519" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751519">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think part of that discussion would be evaluating the flaws in the setup and how we might try to fix them, which is kind of what I mean by end-state</p>



<a name="176751549"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751549" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751549">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>That said, one concern I have overall is that I think we need to do follow-through</p>



<a name="176751590"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751590" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751590">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., with the parallel work, we've landed a bunch of PRs, but I think we're now struggling to organize the follow-up work to do documentation, cleanup, refactoring, measurement</p>



<a name="176751625"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751625" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751625">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and hence maybe it's valid to say "we don't want to land these PRs right now")</p>



<a name="176751634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751634">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>but this might also be topics to discuss in the context of some specific PR?</p>



<a name="176751664"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751664" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751664">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am interested in the loading the dep graph in the background</p>



<a name="176751735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751735">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>If we did this plan I am proposing, I think it woudl be best to pick someone (say you, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span>) to work with zoxc and the PR ahead of time, to try and prep a bit more before the meeting (i.e., try to understand/document the design more deeply)</p>



<a name="176751736"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751736" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751736">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm not clear on where that change falls in the series oF PR's; its just something that stood out to me reading over <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116466">@Zoxc</span> 's post on internals)</p>



<a name="176751750"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751750" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751750">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>in my ideal world, this would take the form of a hackmd doc that becomes a PR to the rustc-guide</p>



<a name="176751771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751771">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that would be the outcome of the meeting :)</p>



<a name="176751822"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751822" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751822">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>we are already loading the dep-graph in the background, IIRC</p>



<a name="176751831"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751831" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751831">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes I was wondering about trying to work more directly with Zoxc to make, at least, a more goal-oriented introduction to these changes</p>



<a name="176751859"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751859" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751859">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:38)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>we are already loading the dep-graph in the background, IIRC</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Is that something that was introduced "recently", e.g. after <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116466">@Zoxc</span> 's post which was put up on Jun 20th?</p>



<a name="176751889"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751889" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751889">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's been in there for quite a while. maybe we are talking about different things though</p>



<a name="176751900"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751900" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751900">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm. okay.</p>



<a name="176751916"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751916" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751916">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> there <em>is</em> a PR that changes various aspects of dep-graph loading, though, in connection with the parallel stuff</p>



<a name="176751940"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751940" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751940">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>and the internals post talks about changing some things there to help extend queries to parsing</p>



<a name="176751979"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176751979" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176751979">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, it's 10:40, I'd like to reach a decision :)</p>



<a name="176752002"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752002" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752002">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, I think I would be willing to try to work with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116466">@Zoxc</span> ; the one doubt I have about it is that I do not know off-hand what time zone they are in nor what hours they tend to be active online</p>



<a name="176752014"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752014" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752014">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I believe they are in Europe</p>



<a name="176752033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752033">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Though whether that makes their hours align with yours, I can't say :P</p>



<a name="176752042"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752042" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752042">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>right. Okay.</p>



<a name="176752046"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752046" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752046">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>well lets tentatively go with this as the plan.</p>



<a name="176752050"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752050" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752050">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Why don't we tentatively schedule a meeting 2 weeks out</p>



<a name="176752063"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752063" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752063">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Here are the dates:</p>



<a name="176752079"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752079" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752079">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Oct 4</li>
<li>Oct 11</li>
<li>Oct 18</li>
</ul>



<a name="176752093"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752093" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752093">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I realize now I will not be here on Oct 18</p>



<a name="176752098"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752098" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752098">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>because of RustBeltRust</p>



<a name="176752111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752111">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me is not available Oct 4</p>



<a name="176752177"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752177" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752177">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>:)</p>



<a name="176752191"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752191" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752191">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like I would <em>definitely</em> want to be here for roadmap discussion</p>



<a name="176752208"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752208" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752208">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>is Oct 4th too soon for a roadmap discussion?</p>



<a name="176752212"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752212" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752212">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would <em>like</em> to be here for all discussions of course, but could probably "catch up" a bit on some of the more technical ones, at least...in theory</p>



<a name="176752237"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752237" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752237">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Oct 4th definitely too soon for me to coordinate with Zoxc)</p>



<a name="176752240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752240">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm, maybe we should talk about roadmap in a bit more detail?</p>



<a name="176752249"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752249" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752249">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>what kind of prep would we want to do beforehand, and who would do it?</p>



<a name="176752253"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752253" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752253">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think our goal should be to have a decision or anything</p>



<a name="176752273"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752273" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752273">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>I could imagine trying to evaluate what we had planned from 2019</p>



<a name="176752285"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752285" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752285">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>and get a sense for what progress we made</p>



<a name="176752338"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752338" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752338">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>(random aside: is 2020 going to be the main design/impl year for Rust 2021?)</p>



<a name="176752354"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752354" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752354">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>A good question! I think the answer is yes, that's how we should think about it.</p>



<a name="176752356"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752356" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752356">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>is the next edition indeed going to be 2021 ?</p>



<a name="176752362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752362">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's not something that's been firmly or broadly discussed</p>



<a name="176752386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752386">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>my roadmap proposal for 2020, just one goal: remove Rust dylibs <span aria-label="drop" class="emoji emoji-1f4a7" role="img" title="drop">:drop:</span> <span aria-label="mic" class="emoji emoji-1f3a4" role="img" title="mic">:mic:</span></p>



<a name="176752412"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752412" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752412">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh =)</p>



<a name="176752441"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752441" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752441">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's a good point, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="119009">@eddyb</span></p>



<a name="176752456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752456">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>It's not something that's been firmly or broadly discussed</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think that's something that <em>should</em> be discussed as part of the overall roadmap planning effort, tbh</p>



<a name="176752474"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752474" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752474">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>across the project as a whole you mean, yeah?</p>



<a name="176752484"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752484" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752484">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>In partcular, I would want to identify any potential 'edition migrations' (i.e., "breaking" changes) early</p>



<a name="176752485"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752485" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752485">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:45)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>across the project as a whole you mean, yeah?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="176752486"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752486" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752486">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>Rust 2021 dylibs will be just cdylibs :P</p>



<a name="176752542"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752542" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752542">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>My opinion though is that I take our Edition messaging seriously</p>



<a name="176752551"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752551" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752551">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>And Rust 2021 is not just about "migations"</p>



<a name="176752566"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752566" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752566">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., it should be about trying to fix some big problems people feel</p>



<a name="176752585"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752585" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752585">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would include IDE/compilation time in that list...perhaps top of it.</p>



<a name="176752600"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752600" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752600">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>So I think yeah we should be talking about Rust 2021 and thinking on that scale</p>



<a name="176752608"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752608" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752608">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>put another way:</p>



<a name="176752616"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752616" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752616">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>whatever we thought we could get done in 2019</p>



<a name="176752624"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752624" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752624">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>is probably what we can <em>realistically</em> get done by 2021</p>



<a name="176752628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752628">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>:P</p>



<a name="176752644"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752644" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752644">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>that seems about right :)</p>



<a name="176752657"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752657" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752657">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="124287">@mw</span>, how would you feel about missing a roadmap meeting?</p>



<a name="176752705"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752705" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752705">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>every year is actually 3 years when you account for all the slowdowns</p>



<a name="176752706"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752706" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752706">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I say "a" beacuse I expect further iteration</p>



<a name="176752728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752728">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would be OK with that</p>



<a name="176752733"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752733" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752733">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>every year is actually 3 years when you account for all the slowdowns</p>
</blockquote>
<p>a colleague of mine used to say... to get a realistic time estimate, take your real estimate, double it, and then up the unit. So 4 days == 8 weeks, 2 months == 4 years, etc</p>



<a name="176752754"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752754" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752754">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm sorry to say that's proven more true to me than I would ever have known.</p>



<a name="176752762"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752762" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752762">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>Zulip redraws every half a minute for me r ight now so this adds up tbh</p>



<a name="176752782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752782">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I'm sorry to say that's proven more true to me than I would ever have known.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>ditto</p>



<a name="176752803"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752803" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752803">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Oct 4 -- roadmap (no mw)</li>
<li>Oct 11 -- "zoxc"</li>
<li>Oct 18 -- ?? (no niko)</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>



<a name="176752823"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752823" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752823">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>what are some of the "less voted" topics...</p>



<a name="176752901"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752901" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752901">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>debuginfo ?</p>



<a name="176752914"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752914" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752914">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>compile time analysis and assistance <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/161" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/161">compiler-team#161</a></li>
<li>Maintenance and triage <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/90" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/90">compiler-team#90</a></li>
<li>who debugs the debuginfo <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/186" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/186">compiler-team#186</a></li>
</ul>



<a name="176752917"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752917" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752917">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>I imagine I could run that without niko present</p>



<a name="176752925"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752925" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> eddyb <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752925">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>"?? (no niko)" sounds like my time to shine but I'm not going to make the mistake of promising anything ever again</p>



<a name="176752934"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752934" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752934">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>lol</p>



<a name="176752979"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176752979" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176752979">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>(man, Zulip won't let me add emoji to any comments right now -- the little emoji cursor shows up, but as soon as my mouse moves over it, it disappears! <span aria-label="angry" class="emoji emoji-1f620" role="img" title="angry">:angry:</span> I feel like I'm being played with)</p>



<a name="176753006"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753006" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753006">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>debuginfo ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>that works for me</p>



<a name="176753037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753037">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:51)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>(man, Zulip won't let me add emoji to any comments right now -- the little emoji cursor shows up, but as soon as my mouse moves over it, it disappears! <span aria-label="angry" class="emoji emoji-1f620" role="img" title="angry">:angry:</span> I feel like I'm being played with)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(I suspect this bug is induced by some FF plugin I have or something, to be fair)</p>



<a name="176753111"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753111" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753111">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>I imagine I could run that without niko present</p>
</blockquote>
<p>we can also take a break if we want</p>



<a name="176753120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753120">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I agree I don't feel the need to be present for debuginfo</p>



<a name="176753122"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753122">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>lets schedule it for now</p>



<a name="176753143"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753143" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753143">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>well "debuginfo" is not really about debuginfo, right?</p>



<a name="176753145"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753145" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753145">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:52)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Oct 4 -- roadmap (no mw)</li>
<li>Oct 11 -- some "zoxc" PR</li>
<li>Oct 18 -- debuginfo</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>



<a name="176753168"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753168" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753168">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>well "debuginfo" is not really about debuginfo, right?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah it's really about "how can we get a sustainable story"</p>



<a name="176753171"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753171" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753171">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's about making a decision what to do with tier 1 features that get tier  3 treatment</p>



<a name="176753180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753180">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>(well put)</p>



<a name="176753196"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753196" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753196">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>it's about making a decision what to do with tier 1 features that get tier  3 treatment</p>
</blockquote>
<p>that's a more general question though, right?</p>



<a name="176753209"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753209" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753209">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't thikn we have to decide this "for every case right now" or something though</p>



<a name="176753215"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753215" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753215">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's the question we'll end up discussing :)</p>



<a name="176753234"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753234" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753234">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe good to talk about what we plan to talk about in the last 6-7 minutes</p>



<a name="176753240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753240">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess it will end up there unless a miracle occurs</p>



<a name="176753282"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753282" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753282">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would imagine trying to figure out (a) what steps can we do to recruit folks</p>



<a name="176753294"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753294" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753294">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(b) what are some thresholds and timelines where upon we consider more drastic action</p>



<a name="176753316"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753316" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753316">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>(c) and what might that drastic action be :)</p>



<a name="176753329"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753329" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753329">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we already know the answers to those questions</p>



<a name="176753350"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753350" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753350">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>well not the exact timeline, but it seems like the <em>obvious</em> first step is to try and do some kind of "call for help" sort of thing</p>



<a name="176753470"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753470" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753470">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>it sounds like something where it would make sense for Niko to be present</p>



<a name="176753518"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753518" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753518">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, the other candidate I could imagine would be "compile time analysis and assistance "</p>



<a name="176753539"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753539" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753539">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>that was my proposal :P but yeah</p>



<a name="176753541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753541">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>but to be honest I think we'd want Niko there for that too</p>



<a name="176753564"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753564" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> mw <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753564">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>we can just skip that date then</p>



<a name="176753569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753569">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems ok to me to leave it unscheduled</p>



<a name="176753579"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753579" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753579">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I like my fridays :)</p>



<a name="176753588"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753588" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753588">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah lets leave it unscheduled.</p>



<a name="176753593"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753593" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753593">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>but</p>



<a name="176753595"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753595" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753595">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>though my dang friday will be busy anyway :shakes-fist-in-impotent-rage:</p>



<a name="176753598"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753598" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753598">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>well</p>



<a name="176753607"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753607" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753607">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>we often get beta-backport requests ...</p>



<a name="176753658"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753658" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753658">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>that end up spilling into there</p>



<a name="176753665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753665">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe "often" is too strong a word)</p>



<a name="176753680"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753680" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753680">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>well</p>



<a name="176753690"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753690" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753690">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>another option would be to move the meeting earlier in the week</p>



<a name="176753702"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753702" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753702">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm also not sure how much I'm really needed</p>



<a name="176753712"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753712" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753712">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I could do some pre-discussion maybe with felix</p>



<a name="176753720"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753720" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753720">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm. That might be a good idea in general... I like my fridays too.</p>



<a name="176753722"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753722" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753722">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>put in my general feeling</p>



<a name="176753731"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753731" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753731">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I don't know whether that will help or hurt our effort to get engagement here.</p>



<a name="176753754"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753754" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753754">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK -- meeting ends in 1 minute!</p>



<a name="176753812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753812">(Sep 27 2019 at 14:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>question is basically:</p>
<ul>
<li>nothing on oct 18</li>
<li>debuginfo on oct 18, niko discusses some with felix before-hand to draft a proposal</li>
<li>debuginfo some other day</li>
</ul>



<a name="176753831"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753831" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753831">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not inclined to change the day</p>



<a name="176753876"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753876" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753876">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>because I have a phobia of calendars and doodle</p>



<a name="176753896"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753896" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753896">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>(but I think it might be worth consdering at some point)</p>



<a name="176753920"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753920" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753920">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm good with either of the other two, but I think if we do "nothing" we should still try to take some steps</p>



<a name="176753927"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753927" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753927">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="176753938"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176753938" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176753938">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>this problem is causing issues for T-release</p>



<a name="176754004"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754004" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754004">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I say schedule it</p>



<a name="176754038"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754038" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754038">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>lets schedule it and still try to resolve the specific problem T-release is facing</p>



<a name="176754045"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754045" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754045">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, that</p>



<a name="176754052"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754052" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754052">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was just typing that :)</p>



<a name="176754054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754054">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>in a nearer term</p>



<a name="176754109"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754109" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754109">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, thanks all for a great meeting! y'all are the best! <span aria-label="hug" class="emoji emoji-1f917" role="img" title="hug">:hug:</span></p>



<a name="176754117"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754117" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754117">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that way, if we end up cancelling Oct 18th meeting, it will not hurt as much</p>



<a name="176754145"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754145" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754145">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>okay bye <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="897">@T-compiler/meeting</span> ; thanks for attending!</p>



<a name="176754192"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754192" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754192">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li>Oct 4 -- 2019 roadmap review, roadmap 2020 pre-discussion</li>
<li>Oct 11 -- some "zoxc" PR -- <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> to coordinate and pick a PR to look at in more detail</li>
<li>Oct 18 -- debuginfo -- but we need to take some pre-steps</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>



<a name="176754213"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176754213" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176754213">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll go update a few things</p>



<a name="176756124"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176756124" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176756124">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, calendar is updated. One thing I wanted to ask -- <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span>  -- do you think that it might make sense in the debuginfo meeting to talk a bit about some specific PRs, too? (Also, where should we discuss the more immediate follow-up that's needed? Maybe break out a separate topic for that...)</p>



<a name="176758845"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176758845" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Carl Lerche <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176758845">(Sep 27 2019 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I was pinged... but i don't know how to use zulip really... i would be happy to help w/ linkerd stuff... for linkerd, my guess is there is a lot that we can do on our end to speed up compilation times, but it's a black box</p>



<a name="176762435"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176762435" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> centril <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176762435">(Sep 27 2019 at 16:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>Missed the meeting but... re. <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/59546" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/59546">#59546</a> it is good that there's some movement here. But... I would like to see a <strong>deadline</strong> (e.g. 6 months) after which the <code>-Z</code> flag becomes the default. I think it's not OK to call Rust a safe language and then let a soundness hole with known miscompilations to sit around for so long.</p>



<a name="176909786"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design%20meeting%202019-09-27/near/176909786" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/131828-t-compiler/topic/design.20meeting.202019-09-27.html#176909786">(Sep 30 2019 at 07:37)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> talking about specific PR's makes sense, if for no other reason than to have a reference point for the overall conversation.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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